From: Alpheta  
11/1/2000 9:35 pm 
To: ALL (1 of 69) 
 
5.1 

Hello darlings.
A very weary Alpheta posts this evening, and then is going to bed! This is from the November/December 2000 issue of Biblical Archaeological Review. Unfortunately, the article is not on-line (I just checked), else I would just give you the link and point to the appropriate text. It is from an article "The Church of the Holy Sepulchre (in Bologna, Italy)" by Robert Ousterhout. This church is a fairly exact replica of the name-sake church in Jerusalem. I won't go into the history of how the church was built or the history of the Jerusalem church originally constructed by Emperor Constantine's mother, Helena, in the 4th century CE, reputedly over the sites where Christ was hung on the torture stake, buried and resurrected.

The first thing that caught my eye about this article was a date: 1009, when the Jerusalem Church of the Sepulchre was torched by "the fanatic Fatimid caliph al-Hakim". A footnote to the article gives a little background: After Jerusalem fell to the Muslims in 638, Christians continued to worship at their churches for centuries. This remained true until the days of al-Hakim (966-1021), whose tenure was marked by persecutions and religious intolerance. As the 6th caliph...in the Fatimid dynasty, which ruled from Egypt, al-Hakim ordered the destruction of churches throughout Fatimid territory, including the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. ... The destruction of the Holy Sepulchre under al-Hakim became a call to war during the First Crusade of 1099, although by this time the church had been rebuilt."

So, 90 years more or less after the destruction of the Jerusalem Church, the first crusaders stormed into Jerusalem and founded their own empire. The 1099 date brought to mind our good friends, the Templars. Wasn't their order founded in 1099? And wasn't their order founded AFTER they had obtained Jerusalem and - if memory serves correctly - the founding knight and his fellows had been excavating under the Temple Mount in the so-called "Solomon's Stables"? Is any of your memories better than mine???

Okay, this is getting long, I'm going to go into another post...

5.2 in reply to 5.1 

Part II
I'm putting aside the Templar connection for the moment. (The Templars were not mentioned in the article). The article states beginning on page 29:

"Geography was a flexible concept in the Middle Ages. The 'Jerusalem' in Bologna wasn't simply a copy of the holy sites; it wsa believed that THROUGH THE COMBINATION OF IMAGE, DEDICATIONS AND DEVOTIONAL ACTS, THE SCARED TOPOGRAPHY of the Holy City COULD BE RELOCATED, RE-CREATED, as it were, AT A NEW SITE. Bologna could BECOME Jerusalem. This is how Santo Stefano (the St. Stephen's church complex in Bologna) was understood in the late Middle Ages." (Emphasis added).

Hold the Presses! When I read this statement I nearly fell off my chair. This is magic - a sort of architectural alchemy - pure and simple, and I think it holds a key - an important key - to the Templars, and to Chess.

Think of all the castles and fortresses that were constructed during the "legitimate" Templar years, prior to their disbanding in 1307 by Philip the Fair. Think about all the churches, the great marvels of architecture that even today we really CANNOT duplicate - built by the Masons and their powerful guild, the holders of secret knowledge, the successors of the Templars and Templars in fact, except for their rainment. Think about the Cathedral at Chatres, think about Rosslyn Chapel at the ancestral seat of the Sinclairs.

I'm still feeling my way here. Help! I see a connection between the Templars' Goddess worship of Mary in her Black Madonna Aspect (Isis) and Templars/Masonic architecture. This is directly tied to the sacred site of the Temple Mount and environs in Jerusalem, a site with which the original founders of the Templars were very familiar. As I posted about some months back, I see a connection between this architecture and the sacred sites

I wrote about (a few of hundreds, maybe thousands) around the world.

Too tired to go any further tonight.
 
From: Isis (georgia18)   
11/2/2000 10:58 pm 
To: Alpheta (3 of 69) 
 
5.3 in reply to 5.2 

Alpheta,
I like your train of thought about the architecture and the symbolism of the structures. As I remember the Khemetians built temples that represented the creation story, and the one that comes to mind is Karnac. Mmmmm isn't there a Karnac in France? We should look into this. Here we go again on another interesting adventure:-) Thanks, Alpheta.

As for dating anything in history, lots of luck;-) I have been following ancient chronology research for some time now, and I have discovered that the dates in the books don't always fit the archaeological record, so be cautious. I am really hopeing that the numbers fit, we shall see, keep your fingers crossed.

LOVE
Isis

May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.
 
From: Alpheta  
11/3/2000 12:08 am 
To: Isis (georgia18)   (4 of 69) 
 
5.4 in reply to 5.3 

Hi, Sis.
I'll have to do some brushing up. I believe there is a Carnac in the Normandy region of France, and I seem to recall ancient standing stones and circular stones set in long rows (miles long). But I could be wrong on this, my memory is very hazy.

The BAR article was fascinating. I didn't tie it up the night before, I was too tired. But my train of thought is something like this:

(1) Some Crusaders go to the Holy Land to wage war against the "Infidel". Once encsconced in Jerusalem, a few intrepid spirits begin excavations under the Temple Mount, perhaps in search of the fabled Solomon's Treasure, perhaps in search of something else. Even if Solomon's Treasure never existed, Scripture shows that the Temple was extraordinarily rich in precious gems and gold; perhaps the priests of the first exilic period hid the Temple's treasures below ground! Incentive enough for money hungry Crusaders to commence excavations.

Here's another fascinating sidelight into history; it wsas during the reign of Judean King Hezekiah that the Ark of the Covenant was last mentioned in Scripture. This was approximately 150 (?) years before Jerusalem fell to Nebuchadnezzar (circa 607-587 BCE, depending upon whose chronology you use). The time was one of intense warfare and the Assyrians were directly threatening to take Jerusalem when Hezekiah petitioned Jehovah for divine assistance. He had received a letter from the Assyrian king mocking the God of the Hebrews, among other things, and in a dramatic scene Hezekiah and his court went to the Temple to petition Jehovah to intercede on their behalf. Hezekiah casts the Assyrian letter before the entrance into the Holy (only priests were allowed into the Holy, and only the High Priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies, once a year, on the Day of Atonement)and proceeds to tear his garments, crying out to God Almighty, etc. etc. There is specific mention, in this section of scripture, of the Ark Cherubim. After this reference, Scripture falls silent on the existence of the Ark of the Covenant. Fast forward many centuries. The lord noble Crusaders would have been familiar with this account in Scripture, and no doubt wondered whatever happened to the Ark of the Covenant. Did the Priests hide it away deep under the Temple Mount when it seemed the Assyrians were about to take Jerusalem? This question is one of the ongoing treasure hunter mysteries.

Sorry, I get distracted by this story, it is so fascinating.

(2) Treasure hunting Crusaders stumble upon an intact shrine to the Goddess deep beneath the Temple Mount. Not only do they discover the shrine, they also discover gold and gems aplenty, a beautiful statue of the goddess that they later interpret as "The Black Madonna", perhaps nestled up against the base of a black basalt monolith the depth and height of which they cannot properly measure (could the tip of this gigantic block of stone be the center of the current Dome of the Rock on the Holy Mount?). They also found inscriptions upon the rock walls of the sanctuary, as well as incised stone and clay tablets. These tablets are secreted away, along with the statue of the Goddess and all the gold and jewels. The inscriptions upon the walls are scrupulously copied down. Then the entrance to the sanctuary is blockaded by a deliberately induced cave-in of massive proportions.

(3) Through years of assiduous effort, the stone and clay tablets are deciphered by monks and a few of the most gifted nobles among the small group of Crusaders who discovered the treasure trove. They reveal knowledge that we, today, do not have. Secrets of manipulating matter and energy, perhaps even time itself. And along with these "alchemical" secrets, there is a history of the world, from the very beginning, from the time of Adam and Eve. It is an abbreviated history, but it contains information that we have no knowledge of today. Among the references discovered in this history are those of the so-called "Royal Game" - Chess.
Enough for tonight, I'm tired!
 
From:  Isis (georgia18)   
11/4/2000 12:10 am 
To: Alpheta (5 of 69) 
 
5.5 in reply to 5.4 

Dear Alpeta,
While reading your thoughts about Treasure Hunting by the Crusaders I recalled hearing that the Crusaders would chissle pieces from the Rock and sell them as sacred relics in Europe. The marketing of ancient relics became a very lucritive bussiness, as it is today. To this day you can see where the Crusaders did their chissling on the Rock.

According to what I have read about the Dead Sea Scolls there was a copper scroll that supposedly tells the location of The Temples treasures. Guess who has had possession of the Scrolls for the past 50 years. Yes, the MiV, so drawing from their track record, there is no shot at getting an accurate translation of the copper scroll, or any scroll that would connect the Goddess to the Temple, or his/herstory. To this day I have hopes of seeing the truth brought out for all us to see.

LOVE
Isis

May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.
 
From: Alpheta  
11/4/2000 9:18 am 
To: Isis (georgia18)  (6 of 69) 
 
5.6 in reply to 5.5 

Good morning, 'Sis.
I think it more likely that any Temple treasure was carted off by the Romans in 70 CE when they destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem, starved off or killed more than a million Jews and sold the rest into slavery. Rome did not deal well with rebellion. Interestingly, this very destruction was foretold by Jesus to his disciples. He talked about it on a couple of occasions and gave a detailed prophecy concerning Jerusalem's last days and the Jewish system of things. It came true in every detail.

I think what the Templars were looking for was the Ark of the Covenant, which, if found, would REALLY be a treasure. They may have believed it had been buried somewhere beneath the Temple confines during King Hezekiah's time or shortly thereafter, since the last possible mention of the Ark is during Hezekiah's time when the Assyrians were threatening Jerusalem. I think I posted about this a long time ago, in the AB part of the Weave.

Anyway, here is a bit more from the article in BAR, which ties in quite nicely with your mention of the Templars selling "sacred" souvenirs:

(From p. 29) The significance of Santo Stefano lay in the belief that sanctity or spiritual value could be associated with persons, places or objects, and that by being captured in matter, the numinous qualities could be carried away from the original location. Such transfers of holiness were common in the Middle Ages, although they were normally enacted on a smaller scale than our Bologna example, and were a routine component of Christian pilgrimage. Pilgrims to the Holy Land routinely returned with souvenirs - ampullae (flasks), amulets, pieces of stone or earth - all generally called in Greek 'eulogiai,' or 'blessings'. ... These 'blessings' were believed to carry a ortion of the sancity of their point of origin and the faithful believed that they could cure diseases, perform miracles and aid in salvation. ...

Related to this phenomenon was the practice of copying the architecture of holy sites, of which the 'Jerusalem' in Bologna is perhaps the bestpreserved example upon many. ... Frequently the copies were built by returning pilgrims and Crusaders ... The Pologna copy was no more than a 'blessing' a pilgrim's souvenir - of architectural dimension.

What I find significant in this article is the mindset of the population and their belief that the essence and power of a place or thing could be transferred by recreating it elsewhere! Now, if the Templars did find a sanctuary to the Black Madonna deep below the earth on the Temple Mount, given the mindset of the times, would they not have duplicated this sanctuary in stone elsewhere - transmitting, as it were, its mystery, power and magic from one place to another? It seems logical that they would! They had the financial resources to hire skilled artisans and even, perhaps (as I alluded to in my earlier post), quite possibly "sacred knowledge" concerning geometry and architecture that had been lost and forgotten during the anarchy of the fall of the Roman Empire and the long stretch of the "Dark Age".

Of course, given the times, they would not have openly reconstructed it as a pagan shrine! No, they would have represented it as a church or a chapel - perhaps several. The question then becomes - where? Were some perhaps "hidden" in plain view, as part of Templar castle/fortress complexes? Is the mysterious Rosslyn Chapel at the Sinclair stronghold a representation of what the Templars discovered?

And is there a connection between such places (if they exist), and the sacred places I explored several months back in a series of posts?
 
From: Alpheta  
11/14/2000 12:01 am 
To: Isis (georgia18) (7 of 69) 
 
5.7 in reply to 5.3 

Hi, 'Sis.
Secondary posting here. I have begun doing research on the temple complex at Karnak. Tres interesting! Did not remember, but was glad to be reminded via one of the links I will post here, that the origins of the complex go back to circa 3050BCE - way way back in historical terms (5000 years!) This is a scant 150 years after the usual date advanced for the founding of the united Egyptian empire (kingdom of the north and kingdom of the south), circa 3200 BCE.

As you noted, however, dating of these ancient sites is very problematical, and is often-times based on lots of presumptions and assumptions, none of which are put out to the light of day for the public to scrutinize and query!

Anyway, before this post gets much longer, here are some of the initial links I have briefly speed-read through:
http://www.civilization.ca/membrs/civiliz/egypt/egca08e.html

Karak temple of
http://www.eyelid.co.uk/karnak1.htm

lo and behold, what do we find at the ancient temple complex at karnak but a “sacred lake” – a smallis pond area – water! Yes, water in the midst of the desert, just as in the recently discovered “Osireion” at Giza.

We have discovered that water has played a prominent part in sacred places, specifically concentrated in Europe and the Middle East (being inferred, perhaps, at the original place of enlightenment of Buhdha ( I can never get the spelling correct!)
http://home.worldonline.dk/~hto/son_of_ra/temple_of_karnak.html

Good pictures and another view of the sacred lake; also, view of an obelisk erected by Queen Pharaoh Hatsepsut.

http://touregypt.net/abydos.htm

The original Osireion was built circa 3050 BCE! Ramses II’s temple complex built in circa 1298 BCE was small potatoes compared to the scope and sheer grandeur of the original. Notice too, the WATER (ground water) that is part and parcel of the original temple complex, that is not incorporated into Ramses II’s tomb. This is only speculation but perhaps by then the connection with and the meaning of the water was lost to the priests.

Also notice the MASSIVE structural nature of the original complex - which is reminiscent of Machu Piccu in South America, and also Stone Henge, all built, given presently accepted dates, around the same time (if memory serves). While the architecture of the later Ramses complex is similar in "feeling tone" to the original Osireion, it is clear from an examination of the photographs that while the later Ramses temple is more sophisticated in design, the design of the Osireion represents a miraculous feat of engineering - given what modern-day archaeologists say were a horde of worker/slaves furnished with stone* awls to chip away at blocks of rock.

Yeah, right!

*Some suppose that the workers had bronze awls or similar tools, - flat edges? - with which towork the stone. Yeah, right. I'm no expet but I undertand bronze to be a very soft metal, certainly not one that would stand up to the rigors of cutting massive blocks of stone used to create - for example, the pyramids, or used to cut the Osirieon out of te native bedrock!

Enough for tonight. Time to go to bed and dream about all of this, and perhaps receive divine goddess inspiration.

From:  Isis (georgia18)   
11/15/2000 12:36 am 
To:  Alpheta  (8 of 69) 
 
5.8 in reply to 5.7 

Hi Alpheta,
I am happy you brought up Karnak for discussion, because I have been working on interpreting the architecture of Karnac. I don't profess to be an expert, far from it, but allow me to take a shot at it anyway.

The ancient temples of Khemet were designed to tell the creation story. Karnak has a lake of water, which represents the primordial sea, and at the beginning of each day a priest/priestess would release a Goose (Geb, aka Mother Goose) onto the lake where it ritualistically layed the cosmic egg, a beginning. Deep within the temple is the House/womb of Goddess/God, from there you pass through the Papyrus colums, another name for papyrus is Reed, does the Moses story ring a bell:-). Another interesting thing about Karnak is that it is layed out and constructed with the Fibronacci Series.

Many moons ago I ran across a site that explained that Papyrus, the species used as models for the colums at Karnak, is not native to Egypt, it is a native to the Indonesian part of the world.

Recently genetisists have change their idea of an African Eve, and are now focusing their attention to the Indonesian area, the same area that Papyrus origiates from.Mmmmm

Today in the newspaper there was an article about are 400,000 year old fossils of a hommonid that could be a distant relative of humans, guess where the fossils were found? Right, Indonesia.

The ancient mummified remains of "Spirit Caveman", which happened to have been found here in Nevada, has features most simular to the Indonesians.

Are all these connections just coinsodence, I tend to think not.

LOVE
May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.
 
From: Alpheta  
11/15/2000 10:32 am 
To: Isis (georgia18) (9 of 69) 
 
5.9 in reply to 5.8 

I need to do more research on Karnak - and I also want to further investigate the other "Karnak" - the Carnac in Normandy. My recollection is that there are hundreds of monoliths all across Normandy, perhaps erected at the same time that Stonehenge was being constructed in England and the Osirieon was being built at Karnak. I also want to take a closer look at Machu Piccu.

I'm going in too many different directions! I also want to research further on round churches - I recall we did some posts a long time ago about the Templars and round churches.
 
From:  Pimander  
11/16/2000 10:43 am 
To: Isis (georgia18) (10 of 69) 
 
5.10 in reply to 5.8 

Hi Georgia
Indonesia! There is something highly suspicious about that general part of the world. In fact, I think a great deal of it is actually missing from view - submerged. This is entirely speculative, but I have recently read that ancient China experienced more problems with the "Flood" than most regions.

There is also some suspicion about the land of "Mu" - "that which does not exist" (in Japanese). With the recent finds of submerged city scapes off the coast of Okinawa,

http://www.lauralee.com/japan/japan2.htm

and the enigmatic monoliths of Easter Island, it is possible that between South America and East Asia there once existed a large continent and some other form of advanced society.

Some of the topographical arrangements off the coast of southern China are very bizarre - and unique. Beyond this, there is a demonstrated reluctance on the part of subsequent Chinese Emperors (have read - but not bookmarked) to discuss "Mu" in terms of an ancestral homeland - i.e., they repressed inquiry some thousands of years ago. My intuition is that it interfered with what information and ideas developed through their sacred cosmologies and the ascription of divinity to the land of China. Perhaps rekindling knowledge of a primordial past was viewed as a possile means of undermining regal authority and disrupting a way of life that had been established in post-deluge times. The Chinese were noted for the manner in which sudden and very far-reaching "revisions" took place in their dynastic evolution.

Indonesia is not far away from China and we know the Egyptians reached Autralia very early on. Many symbols and artifacts are being uncovered in Australia which show that connection. If one could sail to Australia from southern Egypt, one could also reach Indonesia. Recall the ancient vessels that have been unearthed at Giza and elsewhere. These were quite similar to the dragon ships of the Vikings - and look what the Vikings did in their expeditions. No telling what mischief a man and a boat might get into (LOL!) - Thor Hayerdahl (sp?) being one prime example. Men and their "primitive" machines...

As for the Mu connection....the Egyptian Muu dancers are a wonderful enigma. "Reeders Egypt" has a full article on them.

http://www.egyptology.com/reeder/

Pi "knows" the Muu. Pi also "knows" the Tekenu. As for the Muu, word is that they represent ancestral "spirits" - ceremonial dancers - and tie in with the ancient ritual of kingship and rebirth. Their headdresses are florid - (papyrus?) - like those which adorn Minoan and Cretian cermonial types - priests etc. Of course, the headdresses of Mayan, North American Indian priests and gods (and who knows how many other primoridal cultures) create a link - as do the pyramidal and other sacred structures, which seemed to be their favourite haunt. Hapi, the Egyptian god of the Nile - and a significant force in their early culture/pantheon - is depicted with a headdress. Polynesian tribes also wear similar gear - and that is not too far a step from Indonesia.

Now, if you can get your hands on a good topographical map of the sea floor - which I have hanging on my wall BTW - (National Geographic - 1981 - not sure which issue) you can see that a huge semicircular area - stretching from the east coast of Japan, through the Phillipines and south towards Australia - encompasses a vast region, some parts of which may have become submerged following the glacial melt off from the last Ice Age. The topography is suspicious because it shows distinctions - features - which do not fit with other sea floor patterns - i.e. carvings or striations which surround it. In effect, much of this area resembles an above the sea style of topography - mountains, basins etc - which may be tell tale signs of a very large missing piece of an ancient puzzle. While totally circumstantial, the evidence is enticing.

a bientot
Pi (with *blub** snorkle attachment)
 
From:  Isis (georgia18)   
11/17/2000 9:42 pm 
To:  Pimander (11 of 69) 
 
5.11 in reply to 5.10 

Hi Pi,

That is some great research, wonderful information with lots of connections. Okinawa is the home of one of my favorite characters, Mr. Miagi, of the movie "Karate Kid":-)

In the article about the Reeders, or Muu Dancers, there was this translation of and ancient text, which caught my eye;

"Altenmüller noted that the crowned muu may have a reference to Pyramid Texts utterance 220, where the four Lower Egyptian crowns are "personified":

The doors of the horizon open themselves, its bolts slide.
He has come to thee, Net (crown of Lower Egypt),
he has come to thee, Nesert (Uraeus),
he has come to thee, Great One,
he has come to thee, Great of Magic, purified for thee, in awe before thee.
Be pleased with him, be pleased with his purification, be pleased with the words he says to thee:
How beautiful is thy face when thou art pleased, when thou art new and young!
A god has given thee birth, the father of gods.
He has come to thee, O Great of Magic!
It is Horus who fought to protect his eye,
Great of Magic.30 "

If my memory serves me well, the one "Great of Magic" was Isis. Another thing is the fact that we have shown, in our research, that the MiV switched the genders, so the "he" within this passage should be read as "she", so reread the passage and mentally switch the "he" with "she", and the passage makes better sense. Also change "Father" to "Mother".

LOVE
Isis
May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.

From: Pimander  
11/18/2000 2:45 am 
To:  Isis (georgia18) (12 of 69) 
 
5.12 in reply to 5.11 

Hello Dear Isis
I must say that MiV tampering could never totally obscure or negate the powerful "experience" described in the wonderful text you quoted. The abstractions of the Muu and the Tekthys are beyond their command, as are Isis, Horus and Osirian principles - which assemble for this ceremony. That is why I pay the MiV little mind. "Pretenders" could not evoke this magic. MiV have nothing to do with it at all - at least not in the places and planes upon which the real deal is made - where tokens get passed on from soul to soul and are recognized as the genuine currency of the spirit and the real purpose of the game.

I don't exactly understand what you are suggesting however, since that passage involved a partial description of a pharaoh's soul journey and so the gender undergoing the ceremonial "meeting" and "transformation" would be male and the object of his "journey" would probably be identified with Horus - whose "eye" was essentially part of the lore affixed to the Egyptian pantheon - and who, like Isis was both the means as well as somewhat the ends of achieving "gnosis". In effect the two were intercessory spirit guides which convened and enabled the spirit/soul to arrive at an Osirian or grand unified "reality".

That they chose a male symbol for their absolute divinity seems somehow inconsequential other than to elborate upon the terrifying awe which something as majestic as an all powerful entity might inspire upon the inductee. A kind of "Oz" figure... The supreme might and wisdom of the pharoah and all that...as contrasted with the kinder, gentler wisdom of an Isis/Glinda. In a certain emotional context, the ascription of maleness to a supreme deity might be closer to the perceived reality. Like the solar disc - no one can withstand a direct encounter without being blinded - or coming away incapable of describing what has been "seen". No human eye can pierce the mystery of mysteries. Think Enoch... who ascended a terrifying vison and found within a thone of compassion. Paradox - always. Always a certain modicum of fear mixed with compassion.

Not mentioned by name or even assigned a gender, but certainly more than implied are the Great One - which I assume would be Horus the Elder (Osiris or Amun possibly - but not seemingly in this context when used in conjunction with Isis) and the one Great of Magic - which would be Isis herself. Horus Child is shown as a protector of the "eye" - an enabling force, just as Isis is also shown as an enabling force - however, it seems to indicate that the ultimate object of the ritual intended to invoke fusion with the "Father" image - or, perhaps, His able representative, a Horus of the Horizon/Christ or an Isis/Mary - in either of whom the divine union of male and female had presumably already achieved perfection.

But, it is a matter of the deepest kind of conjecture. Many interpretations seem possible, since Horus and Isis appear to correspond to animus/anima - Christ and Sophia in Gnostic interpretation. The transparency is perhaps deliberate, but since it is already difficult enough to grasp the metaphysics involved in this short passage - much less the gender politics of the time in which it was made an operant liturgical ceremony, I will not attempt to offer insights I cannot substantiate except to say that IF the Pharaoh's ceremony was carried out by a caste of bogus MiV priest/scribe usupers, its effectiveness would have been thrown into serious doubt, since it would have failed to achieve the desired result - a form of transubstantiation in which the pharaoh became one with his attendant divinty. As a result, the Egyptian magi would have had to call into question the abilities of the head seers and priests.

If the old magic failed, the lack of a successful transference would have afflicted the Pharoah and his dominion. It was serious business that these men and women were performing and my assumption is that the great seers "knew" if their magic was working or not. It was their sacred duty to God(s) and Country to assure success. IMHO, the ritual of the Tekenu is the crowning glory of ther ability to overcome the physical plane - to unbolt the Duat and enable the acolyte - the pharaoh incumbant - to vault beyond the doors of heaven into the arms of an awaiting deity - in whom the transformation was completed. As a walk though towards learning to overcome the "second death", in ancient Egypt it was a shamanic practice of the greatest refinement and secrecy - which did not fail to include women in its assembly. Why the emphaisis falls upon the male is perhaps due to the fact that it is the male of the species that has greater need to encounter transformation - in order to access the oft repressed feminine aspect of selfhood. Women have this built in. Men need to have their asses kicked - like Ulysses - before the whole episodic ordeal gradually sinks in. If kings were to know the balance between wrathfulness and compassion - fit rulership - they had to be groomed in special ways.

Practically speaking however, through the outcome of transformative awakenings, the gender differentiation of whatever gods and goddeses holds significance only up to a certain point. Perhaps it is at that vanishing point that our ability to perceive any differentiation whatsoever collapses into a rather transparent union with the "All That Is" or a oneness with an "animus mundi" - a world soul. Whatever gender issues are made out of this seem to pale beside the establishment of that kind of harmonious identification with the "One".

The magic still operates today. Don't sweat the MiV - they may write what they like and attempt to turn heads, but they cannot alter the direction in which the world turns. It is beyond their discretion and their power and even they are not immune to transformative encounters. Think of St. Paul, a persecutor who got knocked off his high horse and temporarlily blinded so that he might "see" with greater clarity at a later point... Each soul has its own version of the "Ruby Slippers". once one is made aware of the latent power of the soul - no wicked witch or warlock can spin a media spell, whether it be written on papyrus, parchment or html. The "beautiful words" one may SPEAK in the presence of absolute divinity outlive the letter of any law. Even though the texts may be found in certain passages and places, the significance would not be evident until one had at first attained a final degree of initiation. Actions speak with final authority and invest it also. Written desciptions are strictly post mortem attempts to make sense out of experience. Few are worth the paper they are printed on. This one included.

But, my question for you cher Isis, is that if MiV hold so much sway in the Cathoic tradition, why then do symbols of Isis appear on the roofs of their churches? Surely they knew the heritage of the symbolism they were applying to their own institutions and architecture. If not - then one whould have to assume that certain types of coded messages make their way to us unconsciously and despite the efforts of evil editors. No, the MiV are nothing to fear. They cannot grind as fine a product as the O ...[Message truncated]
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From: Alpheta  
11/18/2000 8:48 am 
To: Isis (georgia18) (13 of 69) 
 
5.13 in reply to 5.8 

Good morning, 'Sis.
A follow-up post: If my memory serves, I recall reading that at one time Indonesia was connected to the mainland, but after the last ice age meltdown (circa 10,000 BCE?) the population there was isolated from the mainland. Prior to the last melt-down, there would have been plenty of time for people - wherever they first originated, to migrate.

Regarding Spirit Caveman, it is certainly possible that he, or his ancestors, could have come from what we now call Indonesia, although the current N.A. wisdom would frown on this. But there seems to be a small but growing undercurrent in academia that the first N.A.'s were much more diversified and came from many more directions than what is currently thought Politically Correct!

Do you recall the date of the Egyptian temple with the papyrus-styled columns? The reason I ask is because I do not believe there are any such decorations - or any decorative carving at all - on the Osirireon, which is the oldest structure at Karnak. Of course, it is hard to tell from pictures on the internet, so I could be wrong about this. However, generally speaking, I believe the highly ornamented style of building belongs to the later Egyptian dynasties, from say, about 2200 - 1200 BCE.
I think we would need to research papyrus further, to determine whether it is native to the Nile region or not.
 
From: Alpheta  
11/18/2000 10:44 am 
To: Pimander (14 of 69) 
 
5.14 in reply to 5.12 

From Pi post 12
“The transfer of power and the transfer of holiness is a sacred trust. Taking the two standard interpretations of how the game of chess proliferated in a short amount of time, do you think that the chess which came either from the Indians to the Chinese - or vice versa - was not some form of sacred transfer - a transfer of a delightful "token" - a tablet and a game of "power"? “

An excellent question, Pi. Based upon what we have learned these past months, several alternative arguments could be made in the affirmative! The 1947 article by Bidev is but one example. We have talked about this in many posts throughout the course of the Weave, and have examined it from many different angles.

As a result of our studies, I have come to see Chess as a representation of the relationship between the carnate (humans) and the incarnate (God/Goddess, the supernatural, the spirit world, and the many other names by which it goes). It is a mutually dependent relationship, for there would be no game without one or the other players (for is God/Goddess really such in the absence of the crowning creation, humankind? And humankind would not exist but for the creative force of God/Goddess). Like any relationship, it is ever-changing, sometimes a love affair, sometimes a war, sometimes merely indifferent. It is unique, however, in that it is eternal. It is a relationship that shall never end.

It is inherent in the nature of Chess that transfers - on many levels – are taking place while The Game is in progress. It is a relict from a time when humankind enjoyed a better relationship with Infinity than we do today, in this period of intense spiritual warfare! It is a fundamental representation of the entire relationship between us and “Not Us”. It both explains all (if only we had the wisdom to perceive, alas) – and confounds! It is, therefore, utterly perfect. In the truest sense, one could say that Chess represents both the sacred and the profane. It is because of the tension arising from this seeming contradiction, that I believe Chess has been with humankind from our very beginning.

It is good that you remind us, Pi, of the non-physical and spiritual aspects of Chess. I am too apt to spend my time searching for “concrete” needles in never-ending haystacks!
 
From:  Pimander  
11/18/2000 12:43 pm 
To: Alpheta (15 of 69) 
 
5.15 in reply to 5.14 

Hi Alpheta
You're out of the woods. I hear "Optimistic Voices"...

"...Keep straight ahead for the most glorious thing
On the face of the earth or the sky!
March up to the gate and bid it open!...Open!"

Yes! "Alternative" perspectives are unavoidable. Even the ultra- rationalist Murray had to include some "folk tales" in his writing about the origins of chess.

Articles of faith - these are tokens. Chess is a token. Shogi is most certainly a token and the way in which Shogi representatives are revered in Japan shows this to full effect. Other such tokens might include the game of "Go" and the Tarot. Where do these things come from? If there were not some form of archetypal truths instilled in their creation there would be no lasting reverance. Given the sacred nature of the game, one would have to say that the folks who "channelled" or created it had to have been of a particularly sacred bent. In effect, they were tokens themselves. Little shamanic reps of the bigger "Incorporation".

In Egypt, we see the full flowering of a primordial shamanic culture which drew upon arcane resources for its ascendency. While the male shaman or priest may have usurped some of the role from the female, providing that Isis was still in charge of certain "transfers", like the Virgin Mary, or the Black Madonna, it was impossible to exclude her from the iconography without demolishing the fullness of the token "experience". Horus/Christ also has an individuated role - but even in Catholic or Gnostic traditions - particulalry as they are reflected in pseudographic or non cannonical scriptures, there is an intense connection between the male and female which cannot be ignored. As is stated in the Pythogorean Tarot, the female of the species seems to have the final word in many important matters. Why the Magician must learn to incorporate her wisdom rather than the other way around appears to hold a special significance in the Tarot as well as in the Gnostic traditions of "Sophia". It would also perhaps account for the male gender being the focus of transformative accounts - difficult passages en route to a final stage of completion in which the male must enlist the help of the female to make good the escape from the dark night of the soul - the hell of uncertainty and the denial of intuitive abilities which women take somewhat for granted it seems.

That women should hold the upper hand in matters metaphysical - this is what inflamed Octavian/Augustus. In his address to the troops before the battle of Actium, he denegrates the Egyptian way of life and their forms of worship. He attacks Isis and Anthony in the same breath. While the affront to Roman rationalism made Egypt a target for later orthodoxy and the kinds of intellectual upheavals instigated by such men as St. Cyril, it was a token that couldn't be buried. Isis' golden stars on the ceiling of Christian cathedrals are a vindication of her reality.

It is unstoppable! Like crop circles, chess may also be among the many direct manifestations of her will. Artifacts, both living in flesh and blood of real people and their symbolic output reflect Horus and Isis. Ennumeration of these instances of "transfer" is what we are doing here. As long as you know that there is a clearing in the forest, or an ocean attached to various streams, there will never fail to be a central point of referance for all this activity.

Lead on Dorothy!
a bientot
Pi

From: Isis (georgia18)   
11/18/2000 1:40 pm 
To: Alpheta (16 of 69) 
 
5.16 in reply to 5.13 

Good Morning Sis,
The great hall of coloumns(sea of reeds) at Karnak are models of papyrus. Another example of the papyrus can be seen in at the site that Delion posted about the Reeders.

I would like to see a computer model of the earth's land masses 10,000 years ago, I know one exists, it is just finding it that is difficult.

I have got to go right now, soccer picnic for the girls today, and then to the movies to see "The Grinch" with Jim Carey. I will write later this evening.

LOVE
Isis

May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.

From:  Pimander  
11/18/2000 10:25 pm 
To:  Isis (georgia18) (17 of 69) 
 
5.17 in reply to 5.16 

Hi Georgia

Here's something interesting - which ties in with the notion of an early pan-global language - an alphabet actually. This is the kind of archaeological,/anthropological that we are looking for, although it is also speculative in some sense and would require a peer review before being accepted. Even so, the research seems genuine and the map included is also helpful in identifying areas of influence. This may relate quite well to waht Alpheta was mentioning about the new directions research into indian anthopology is taking tese days.

Quite a mix it would appear.
http://www.viewzone.com/expo2002.html

Not too sure about these links - but they may help get a search underway for that 10,000 year old map we would all like to see.

http://vishnu.glg.nau.edu/rcb/globaltext.html

http://www.geology.com/

This next one is for Pangea - which is millions of years ago - but it does show a model the earth with all land surfaces clustered around the South Pole - and precious little earth at that. The suspicious thing about this is the watery void - a la Nut - which takes up more than half the upper hemisphere. This would be in keeping with that Egyptian legend. The maps on this site are pretty fascinating and an educaton in themselves.

As for Okinawa - "Teahouse of the August Moon" was staged there. It was a play, but a movie was made back in the 50's starring Marlon Brando. Saw it in tonight's late show listings!
a bientot

Pi
 
From: Pimander  
11/18/2000 11:26 pm 
To: ALL (18 of 69) 
 
5.18 in reply to 5.17 

An important message from Charismatic and Deep Goat:
http://www.atlan.org/articles/sacrifice/

This took my breath away. Right now you could knock me down with a feather. I just went right to it!! Horse and Goat Sacrifices, Atlantis, Greece, Egypt, Black Madonnas - even references to chess and so much more are tied up in this document. There is too much here... Yes, it would seem at times that the hand of the goddess does my pointing and clicking... Must give credit where credit is due...

Wallace and Pi - fairly astounded, but going back for a few more slices. In fact, I have yet to see who the author is - but the tie ins are too tasty to resist. W 
  
From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 1:18 am 
To: Pimander (19 of 69) 
 
5.19 in reply to 5.18 

Wow! Just read until my eyes crossed, and I'm not even a quarter way through. Lots of tie-ins, to be sure, but I also noted in passing (did not write down during first read-through) some erroneous or misleading statements as well as some that are downright questionable.

This needs further dissection and reseach, but on the whole, a remarkable piece of work. But why did the author not put his name on the piece? This gives me pause.
 
From: Pimander  
11/19/2000 2:47 am 
To:  Alpheta  (20 of 69) 
 
5.20 in reply to 5.19 

Hi Alpheta

Count me in among the cross-eyed. Yes, I see some items which strike me as a bit "rich". The author does put his name on the page but only in the tiniest type at the very bottom - after all the footnotes. Spanish it would appear. Perhaps he is a friend of Ricardo's? A sworn enemy perhaps? Either way, he seems to refer frequently to a derivative interpretation of something quite resembling S.B.'s family name - which struck me as profound BTW.

My impression is that much of the translation of myths he attempts to show between Hindu/Vedic and Greek/Egytian/Gnostic traditions is quite plausible if not the real deal. On te oter hand, I disagree that he would state a premise which attempts to bypass synchronous and independant developments through archetypal realities. He is short on pan-psychism - which may be attributable to his need to relate a credible thesis based on hard fact. (sound familiar?) Even so, that "100th monkey" premise is fairly strong and we demonstrate the psychic bond with enough aplomb here in our own endeavours to make a case for it.

Still, much of what I have thus far read seems enticingly good and he at least has the wisdom to invite critique and so forth. Intuition tells me that he is correct with his location of Atlantis.

Some contributing details - I'm not so sure of and will assume a skeptic stance. Must read further.

a bientot
Sleepy Wallace

From:  Alpheta  
11/19/2000 9:18 am 
To:  Pimander (21 of 69) 
 
5.21 in reply to 5.20 

Good morning, Wallace.

I am going to print out the piece and spend more time going over it, and making notes. I like the fact that the author has attempted to do a comprehensive overview of mythic legends (is that redundant?) and connects them all from a common source, which makes sense to me (I'm the original off the ark lady after all, the quintessimal one source legend).

One note I did scribble down last night, I was much struck by the author's pointing out the dichotomy of language between east/west, with the east being "polysemic" (words capable of multiple interpretations, depending upon the context) and the west being "monsemic"; there are exceptions, of course, in western languages, but overall - my hunch is that he is correct about this. The question becomes, what could have given rise to such a dichotomy?

And it occurred to me that the great divide in the world's languages may have occurred around the same time that matriarchy and the goddess were on the downswing and patriarchy and the god were on the upsurge. This might, in fact, coincide with the emergence of proto-indo-european, which eventually gave rise to the "western" groups of languages: Balto-Slavic; Germanic (English is part of this family); Celtic; Italic (Spanish and French are part of this family); Albanian; Hellenic; Armenian; Anatolian (all extinct now); Indo-Iranian; and Tocharian (also extinct). With the exception of the Tocharian language found in the Tarim Basin of China, these languages pretty much define the "west". I include India in the west because the population is caucasian/occidental and language proves the ties that bind. And it has been supposed that the Tocharians, with their red hair and caucasian features, were from the "west", and not native to the region.

In any event, the author's information about horse sacrifice gives new meaning to "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse"!
 
From: Pimander  
11/19/2000 11:06 am 
To:  Alpheta (22 of 69) 
 
5.22 in reply to 5.21 

Hi Jan

Well I guess I know where I'm going to be today. Have downloaded one installment and previewd the comparison table this as yet unnamed author established.

Here's one for the books... The Polysemic and monosemic languages....

O.K., when teenaged McLean got smashed on LSD and had his little encounter with "who knows what", there were three things which struck him on a linguistic level. The first was that he was being addressed though a form of clairaudience in plain English - which occurred on three separate occasions in that ten or fifteen minute span and bore with it the authority of maleness, kingship, command and certainty. It was abrupt, terse, clear, concise and very compelling... the kind of language you might encounter on a battlefield. No questions asked.

The second was that the feminine "angel" which descended from the vision more or less nibbled on his ear and showed him the illuminated and inter-connected attributes of his immediate natural surroundings, uttering a kind of gibberish which could only be described as oriental sounding. Babble - bubbling musical tones and inflections that were foreign to the Western ear somehow translated meaning in a more vague and gestalt sense. A language of the arts? In any case, McLean understood what was being said despite the language barrier - which surprised him in a way. Her attitude was impish and a bit sly and she was using a kind of psychic paint brush to "animate" McLean's surroundings - pointing out what we would normally regard as inanimate features such as rocks and trees and then transforming them into a vibrant assembly of interconnected, percolating and conscious beings. You can see why "the land remebers even if we do not..."

Consciousness extends throughout creation.

Thirdly, there were those tactile, electromagnetic waves - which might have been a language apart - a language of light perhaps. Who knows what those meant - but as far as "source material "goes, McLean could say that he got it from the "horses mouth".

Anyhow - on with the research...

Our tribe wishes you a great day of discovery!
Wallace, Pi, Charismatic & Deep Goat
 
From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 12:07 pm 
To:  Pimander (23 of 69) 
 
5.23 in reply to 5.22 

McLean's experience was, perhaps, to prepare him for and make him appreciative of greater wonders to come, just of a different magnitude.

I can only begin to imagine how you must have felt when you came across this link, in light of your experience! Egoddess! Until I read the piece, I had no idea about polysemic and monosemic language, but it makes perfectly good sense - and explains so much! We perceive so much through our words - our innermost secret thoughts and feelings are expressed in words, although all of us experience, at times, things/events/emotions that cannot be expressed in words at all! But that does not lessen the profoundness and the impact of the experience.

I am wondering about the author of this wonderful research. What made him undertake such a course? Is he still looking further? Does he play chess?

LOL! Because the piece I read touched upon SO many of the subjects that we have been discussing here in The Weave for almost two years now (anniversary for The Weave is next month, folks), I am wondering if perhaps the author would be interested in joining out group. I shall investigate further.

Now I must be off - late services for my congreation until January 1st, then off to a late lunch (or early dinner) with some friends, so no more research or writing for the time being.
 
From:  Alpheta  
11/19/2000 12:24 pm 
To: ALL  (24 of 69) 
 
5.24 in reply to 5.23 

I have just sent an email invitation off through the "control center" here to the email of whom I suppose to be the author of "The Horse Sacrifice". I do not know what will happen. The piece was copyrighted in 1997, so perhaps the email address is no longer valid; or the author might receive the invitation and ignore it. My hope is that he will visit to investigate our little group and decide to join us in our quest. Everyone, pray to the goddess!
 
From:  Pimander  
11/19/2000 1:27 pm 
To:  ALL  (25 of 69) 
 
5.25 in reply to 5.24 

Hello Alpheta
You have read my intentions perfectly. This VERY distinguished gentleman, Arysio Nunes dos Santos, is, as far as I can determine, "The Bomb" - a Brazilian nuclear scientist of the highest calibre. He has things for us - but I believe there is a certain amount we can barter in return. I would dearly love to have him here. Please let me know if your entreaty proves successful. If not, I will attempt to intervene. I am somewhat compelled.

The recent impact IS highly personal. He has given "Joe Friday" a way out - an orientation to many suspected missing clues - a way beyond the "great divide". The case is now almost closed. What remains is to write. I could spill a tale of synchonicity here that would curl your hair - but I hear you are growing it long these days, so this might not be such good idea.

Mr. dos Santos would have to be at least "amused" by what we have generated over the past years. Providing we have the archived and dated transcripts of our collective research and muse, we can appear at least organized in a way that might not waste this man's valuable time. His resume is vastly impressive BTW.

All history as we have come to know it in the Western world perpetually runs up against a brick wall once we delve into the furthest depths of its development. The great divide is the flood and the epic myths and iconographies which stem from this event are, as Mr. dos Santos states, fragments of a larger primordial puzzle, which he has, I believe, reconstructed in a coherent and believable fashion. If nothing else, there is a profound sense of accord that has emerged through this new series of message board postings. Isis too should be impressed. A scientist! He understands Quantum physics! Be gentle Pokahontas...

No matter how Mr. dos Santos choses to acknowledge our efforts, it seems as though we have acquired a powerful allay through his work, if not his person. Of course I may be jumping the gun here but, as well, I can see him and S.B. working together in close collaboration. It appears as though we have a new paradigm for the history of the game of chess. We need all the help we can get. Roll over H.J.R. Murray! Send in St. Theresa of Avila! Damn! I do believe we've finally got it ALL! - from top to bottom and side to side! In any case, the tribal quartet is singing a happy tune today.

Hallelujah!
Wallace, Pi, Charismatic and Deep Goat (in harmony)

From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 8:42 pm 
To: Pimander (26 of 69) 
 
5.26 in reply to 5.25 

Back from lunch/dinner and I'm stuffed! The special invitation I issued through the control center here was returned as undeliverable, but I sent off a private email through my own mail server and that was not returned, so I am hopeful it got to its destination. Whether it will generate a response is another matter, for I believe I must have sounded somewhat frantic! LOL - that's all the good doctor needs, an hysterial woman from Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA saying please contact me if you get this email! Oh well, if in a few days I have not heard anything, I will try to frame a more sedate and suitable inquiry as to his interest in perusing our discussion here.

Now I've got some reading to do - The Horse Sacrifice article printed out to 40 pages!

Oh, and get what I found in my Bible during services this afternoon - you're not going to believe this!!!

2Ki 23:11: Further, he [King Josiah of Judah] caused the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun to cease from entering the temple of Jehovah by the dining room of Na'than-me'lech the court official, which was in the porticoes, and the chariots of the sun he burned in the fire. (New World Translation)

2Ki 23:11: He tore down the statues of horses and chariots located near the entrance of the Temple, next to the quarters of Nathanmelech the eunuch. These had been dedicated by former kings of Judah to the sun god. (The Living Bible)

2Ki 23:11: And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun, at the entering-in of the house of the LORD, by the chamber of Na'than-me'lech the chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire. (King James Version)

It's not clear from these translations (I only have these 3 in the house) whether the horses were, in fact, live horses kept in chambers at the Temple, which the New World and King James translations seem to imply, or whether they were statues of horses, as the Living Bible implies. It seems certain that the chariots, something apart from the horses, were burned with fire, so that would seem to make them real chariots made of wood, not something carved of stone (for stone would not burn in a fire). If the chariots are real, then the horses might be specially bred chariot horses, and not carved statues sitting outside one of the entrances into the Temple complex (there were several entrances).

What is fascinating about this is the the horses and the chariots were "dedicated to the sun god"! That bespeaks a definite Egyptian influence, and the time period, circa 650 BCE, is about right. I just started reading in my last issue of Archaeology about Egyptian influence in Gaza and southern Judea around this time period. In any event, Solomon had married the daughter of Pharaoh and built a special temple for her, and the Egyptian influence could have dated from that time (circa 920 BCE) forward. By the time of Good King Josiah, the Jews had been steeped in apostasy for centuries; in fact, as I've mentioned in other posts, they were never exclusively faithful to Jehovah/Yahweh for very long. So, Sun worship does not seem a stretch.
But horses and chariots in connection with sun worship? That's new to me. I will have to read the Egyptian part of the Horse Sacrifice article very carefully, for that was the first I ever heard of such a practice. And now this scripture "pops" up under my nose!
 
From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 9:54 pm 
To: ALL (27 of 69) 
 
5.27 in reply to 5.26 

Well, knock me over with a feather. Did a simple search at yahoo under "horse sacrifice", and over 100 sites were listed, including the one Wallace posted about. Here is the link to one I just finished reading, about a shamanistic ritual in the Altai Mountain region (Eurasia, where it is popularly assumed that the horse was first domesticated).
http://alexm.here.ru:8081/mirrors/www.enteract.com/jwalz/Eliade/093.html

After a quick read-through, I saw many similarities to the ritual described in "The Horse Sacrifice" paper by dos Santos. Fascinating.
Back to research...
 
From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 10:33 pm 
To: ALL (28 of 69) 
 
5.28 in reply to 5.27 

I have received a return email from Dr. dos Santos, and am preparing an email to invite him to view our work at The Weave archives at Goddesschess, at Delphi/Chesstuff, and here. I will let you know if I hear further.

From: Isis (georgia18)   
11/19/2000 10:57 pm 
To: Pimander (29 of 69) 
 
5.29 in reply to 5.17 

Hi Pi,

"The Teahouse of the August Moon" is one of my Favorite movies of all time, Glen Ford, Eddie Albert, an the beautiful Gisha, who in my opinion should have received an Academy Award for her proformance. I you have the chance to see it, by all means watch it.

In the February 2000 issue of Discover Magazine I found this article, and it seems to fit into what we have been discussing: "Chinatown, 1000 BCE"

Three thousand years before the egg roll joined America's fast-food menu, a group of Chinese immigrants may have sailed to the New World and transformed the local culture. Mike Xu, a linguiest at Texas Christian University, says he has the proof in their own handwriting.

Xu has spent years analyzing jade, stone, and pottery relics from the Olmec, an ancient people that inhabited the American Southwest and Central America 3,000 years ago. He was struck by how closely the symbols on the artifacts resembled Chinese inscriptions from the Shang dynasty [BTW~The Shang dynasty was a Martiarchy.] in China. "There are hundreds of these symbols that occur again and again, throughout the entire Olmec territory," Xu says. The Shang writings date from 1600 to 1100 BCE. Traces of the Olmec civilization abruptily appear during this span, aroud 1200 to 1100 BCE.

Olmec and Shang artistic styles look much alike, and the two cultures followed related religious practices. For instance, both used cinnabar, a red pigment, to decorate ceramonial objects, and both put jade beads in the mouths of the dead to ward off evil. "The similarities are just too striking to be a coincidence," he says.~Jocely Selim"

If this is sound evidence that the Olmec and the Shang dynasty were similar, and the Shang dynasty was a Matriarch, it could be Very possible that the Olmec society was also a Matriarchy.

Delion, you keep coming up with some good posts!
LOVE
Isis

May the Hand of the Goddess Always be with You.
 
 From: Alpheta  
11/19/2000 11:13 pm 
To:  ALL (30 of 69) 
 
5.30 in reply to 5.27 

One last post for the night:
Here is a description of the Aryan horse sacrifice ritual:
http://www.newsgate.co.uk/uk/uk.religion.hindu/msg02301.html
Quite graphic.
 
From: Pimander  
11/20/2000 12:33 am 
To:  Isis (georgia18)  (31 of 69) 
 
5.31 in reply to 5.29 

Hi Georgia
Excellent post Isis. There have been quite a number of these new finds recently although I have not paid as much attention to them as I might. Wallace recalls stepping into an Indian crafts store in Hamburg last year and seeing a ceremonial drum with a perfect chessboard painted on the head. Who knows what next?
Glenn Ford - not Brando? Just goes to show what our movie reviewers know up in these parts - but the film was on a cable channel I can't access. Have read the book/play - some thirty years ago. Little vague on the plot but I recall liking it.

Caught an error in one of those previous posts - referred to Nut when it should have been Nun. Tricky Egyptians. Even after all this time I still have difficulty with their spread of deities and dynasties.

We'll just keep following our nose here - down the yellow brick road.

That line from "Optimistic Voices" - It never fails - like a novena.

AND, this afternoon our Montreal Alouettes won the right to meet British Columbia in the Grey Cup next Sunday. That's our Canadian version of the Superbowl BTW! Go Als Go!

a bientoto
Wallace and the gang of four (deLion too!)

From: Pimander  
11/20/2000 1:15 am 
To: Alpheta (32 of 69) 
 
5.32 in reply to 5.30 

"..the most glorious place on the face of the earth or the sky"

Well, my pretty - Is Oz Atlantis?

Even so - as I have read in dos Santo's work, the horse is considered a solar aspect and the cow the lunar aspect of a basic division among the Atlanteans. Mr. dos Santos takes this premise much further, but that seems to be the general idea. Josiah's temple of the sun reflects this affinity. I wonder what event precipitated the burning of those artifacts. Hope there was no real flesh and blood involved, although I fear that might have been the case judging from what I have read about the goat sacrifice. Deep Goat says, "Da! Is such the life of goat to be makink alvays sacrifices."

Souvlaki anyone?

I recall reading something about how one ancient tribe (Scythians perhaps) ran their horse sacrifices over a sea-side cliff fall. This is kind of like the same technique our North American Indians used to slaughter buffalo. In Alberta, Canada, there is a place called "Buffalo Jump" and it is considered important sacred ground.

So pleased you managed to solicit a response from Mr. dos Santos! We hope that he will find time to post here or e-mail you in person, Alpheta. Pimander has questions about the physics of "light cones" - their affinity to the holy towers, church spires, the holy mountains and the role of physics in the curious seven-fold geometry - the sacred geometry of Pythagoras and the crop circles of recent years. As well the Clifford Algebra as it relates to information theory is also a preoccupation. Aside from these bugaboos, anything he has to relate regarding the Vedic/Christian connection plays well with this heretical dragon.
I see all kinds of "timely" connections in his work. Among the many, there is a section which refers to Karnack, Egyptian temples and the papyrus pillars we were recently discussing. Certainly worth a thorough read.

a bientot
Pi
 
From: Isis (georgia18)   
11/20/2000 1:43 am 
To: Pimander (33 of 69) 
 
5.33 in reply to 5.31 

Go Als Go!! :-)

You were correct. Marlon Brando is in "Tea House of the August Moon", he played the Japanese character Sakeeni.
I am looking forward to reading Dr. Santos's site completely, and I will be sure to have my note book handy.

LOVE
Isis

From: Alpheta  
11/20/2000 11:53 am 
To: Pimander (34 of 69) 
 
5.34 in reply to 5.32 

Hi Pi,
King Josiah ascended the throne of Judah when he was 8 years old. His father, King Manasseh, was, by biblical accounts, a profligate, a worshipper of pagan gods, and he sacrificed many of his own children to Molech, who liked his sacrifices burned alive. The Bible says that the streets of Jerusalem ran red with the blood of Manasseh's victims. Quite graphic. when Josiah reached manhood, he allocated money for repair of the Temple which apparently was falling into ruins by this point in time, some 350 years after it had been built by Solomon. During the repair work, an ancient copy of the law was found somewhere within the Temple confines and given to the King, who had his secretary read from it out loud. Upon hearing the law, Josiah ordered that all pagan temples and sites, including altars on high places and the sacred Asherah poles, be destroyed. This included then the destruction of all pagan objects in the Temple confines itself, including an Asherah pole that Manasseh had erected in the courtyard of the Temple, a great blasphemy!

It is unclear whether the horses dedicated to the sun god were killed, but it is clear that the chariots were destroyed, burned in a fire. King Josiah died before his 40th birday, killed in battle by Pharaoh Neccho. One of Josiah's sons ascended the throne, and the Jews reverted to their aspostacy. The Egyptians conquered Jerusalem and Josiah's son (I think his name was Jehoichim) became a puppet king, subject to Egypt. But along came the Babylonian, Nebuchadnezzar, who conquered Judah and installed a new puppet king. The Jews rebelled some years later and Nebuchadnezzar finally destroyed the entire city of Jerusalem, including the Temple of Solomon, and carted off the entire population into slavery for the next 70 years, until the Babylonians were, in turn, conquered by the Medo-Persians by Cyrus the Great.

Okay, enough history. After Solomon, who had his own bout in his later years with apostacy, there were only a few "good" kings of Judah, who tried to stamp out the worship of the pagan gods and toed the line of the Law of Moses. Hezzakiah was one; his son was Manasseh (a really bad king), and his son and grandson of Hezzakiah, was Josiah, another good king. Interestingly, the possible mention of the Ark of the Covenant in the Bible is during Hezzakiah's time (approximately 720 BCE). In Josiah's time, during the Temple repair and renovation, no mention is made of the Ark being moved out of the Holy of Holies while the repairs were underway. Scholars have therefore speculated that a few remaining faithful priests had removed the Ark sometime during evil Manessah's reign, perhaps after he erected the Asherah pole in the courtyard of the Temple. This, of course, has given rise to much speculation about where the Ark was taken, and whether it still exists, hidden away somewhere, today. "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is one recent popular example of the enduring myth, as is a book by Graham Hancock. I read the Hancock book about two years ago (I do not recall the name); Hancock followed the trail of the Ark to an ancient church in, I believe, Ethiopia, where, local legend asserts, it has been kept since being brought through the desert by a troup of loyal priests and their followers, who were the ancestors of the Ethiopian Jews.
 

From: Pimander  
11/21/2000 3:51 pm 
To:  Alpheta  (35 of 69) 
 
5.35 in reply to 5.34 

Hi Alpheta
Belatedly, it occurrs to me that the passages you are focusing upon from the Book of Kings comprise the focal point of the only Old Testament studies I undertook in university! It was taught by a young woman who, in her first attempt at instructing university level courses in O.T. studies, managed to make it about as boring as it could possibly be. Zzzzz! Of course, I see it now in a better light and a more complete context. This is hardly the "dry" subject that some would make it out to be.

A bit of a puzzle here. There must have been some intense factional conflicts within the Jewish state, even back then - (oh duh!) well - OBVIOUSLY! But the odd thing about this is that if you recall how Mosaic Law can be traced to Egyptian dictates, that would probably signify a kind of factionalism within Egypt as well, since, if I am not mistaken, the tradition which upheld the Ashtera pole was also operant in Egypt and elsewhere. Is that so?

I am hardly equivocal on the subject of burnt offerings and human sacrifices BTW. Certain pagan traditions as the one ascribed to Molech and the other which you posted about the ritual copulation are fairly wanton and unnecessary and may have come about, not so much through the practices of true mystics and psychopomps, but actually embodied delusionary forms of popular religious cults which perhaps, through some political motivations, did as much then to draw distinctions and divisions between nations and cult followers as we are doing today with our current brand of religious factionalism. Mr. dos Santos beats me to the punch by noting (somewhere!) that today our blood sacrifices are en masse and made on the battlefield. While the ancient rites do appear quite grizzly in their execution, Western society has probably accomplished far more in a much shorter time - one small civil war perhaps - than all the cults of human sacrifice could have ever done over the course of many millennia. Either way, there is no justification for any of it and we suffer at the hands of unfounded attitudes fueled by selective memories and distorted desires.

Someone's gonna have to pay for all this!

a bientot
Pi
 
From: Alpheta  
11/21/2000 11:57 pm 
To:  Pimander (36 of 69) 
 
5.36 in reply to 5.35 

Hi Pi,
In answer to your question, I don't know for a fact that the specific practice of erecting a pole in a high place next to an altar was something practiced in other countries; it seems to have been a regional traditional in the "Promised Land" that was practiced by the "Canaanites" (a broad spectrum of peoples, apparently). Certainly it represented the goddess, Asherah, also called Ashtoreth in the Bible and the Queen of the Heavens.

You are right, there were many factions competing for power among the Hebrews, right from the time of the Saul/David split until the nation was finally destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE. Here is an interesting factoid. Jehovah/Yahweh would not let David build his great temple because he had too much "blood guilt"! That gives an indication of just how many people (the Bible is not specific) David killed in his quest for the throne once he was annointed by the prophet Samuel to replace Saul.

In addition to the political factions and power struggles for the throne and the struggles of the Aaronic priesthood against the seduction of the populace by the local pagan goddesses and gods, there was a physical split of the nation after Solomon's death, with Judah and Benjamin constituing one nation, under the kingship of one of Solomon's son (a real asshole who was eventually asassinated), and the 10-tribe nation of "Israel" under Jeroboam, a usurper. Israel (sometimes called Samaria) existed as a separate, entity with Judah until 740 BCE when Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians, the same Assyrians who later threatened the two tribe nation of Judah under King Hezzakiah (mentioned earlier).

The practice of human sacrifice, as well as the horse ritual described in the link I recently posted, are totally and thoroughly revolting! One can only attempt to understand the underlying reasons for such practices as perceived through the minds of the practitioners. What I am focusing on is the supreme importance of the horse. Once again - ekwhos is calling! The relationship between man and horse goes back to at least 4,000 BCE, and arguably beyond, for there is some evidence for wheeled (solid wheels) horse-drawn carts circa 4000-3800 BCE in some drawings found in a cave. In any event, thanks to the research of Drews and others we know that by 1800 BCE the spoked wheel made its appearance in ancient Armenia, and within 150 years the light war chariot with the spoked wheel was a must have on the list of every king of every city-state in the known world.

Only consider the function of the horse in the ancient landscape: it was a source of food for some cultures, as well as a source of fuel (dried dung); it was a means of rapid communication between city-states and kingdoms (an ancient pony express); it was a faster means of over-land transport than oxen; it was capable of being ridden as well as pulling loads; it was capable of bonding with humans in a unique relationship, unlike other "beasts of burden"; with the advent of the spoked wheel and the light war chariot, it assumed supreme importance in the defense and offense of the city-states.

With this approximately 2,350 year partnership between man and ekwhos (circa 4000 BCE to 1650 BCE and beyond), it strikes me as utterly ridiculous that a game involving ekwhos as a primary component ("knight" [mounted warrior] and "rhukh" [war chariot]) was not developed until the Indians started playing "chaturanga" in the 4th century CE!
I have not heard from Dr. dos Santos.
 

From: Pimander  
11/22/2000 2:51 am 
To: Alpheta (37 of 69) 
 
5.37 in reply to 5.36 

Hi Alpheta
I have often found it fascinating that two people so dissimilar as a David and a Soloman could have arrived on virtually the same scene in such rapid succession. Seems to indicate that "Transfers of Holiness" were not necessarily the lot of the blood splattered general. Perhaps that might say something about the nature of chess and its various legends of tranfer - which, at all times throughout what I know of its evolution, seem to have been carried out in a very peaceable manner.

China-India - India-China -- Muslims-Christian or even the modifications which took place in Valencia and elsewhere- all of these seem to have been carried out with an overarching sense of the sacred fixed in thought and deed - cooperation, rather than through the profane or hostile spirit of competition.

That is not to say that the essence of peace does not find its way into a warlike spirit - or vice versa. The psalms ascribed to David are divine in their own right, even if he did not always seem to live the most exemplary of lives. Two very complex and gifted individuals this David and Soloman, although the latter of the two seems to show more the character of the chess player.

Disappointing to hear that Dr. dos Santos has not made any direct reply. A strange thing occurred online earlier this evening. When I retraced the identical Yahoo search into "heb-sed" (a bookmarked search of some very longstanding on my drive BTW) which is how I located his site - I could no longer see it listed there!?? I know that search engines can be finniky and content will change from time to time, but it did give me a start. In any case, as of this morning at least, the site remains on line. I have downloaded just about all the pages and so, no matter what, the information stands as long as I don't run into any unforseen problems with my Mac. Still reading through the pages, which are vastly informative in many ways. I see also that he is looking for a U.K. or U.S. publisher...hmmmm

From: Alpheta  
11/22/2000 2:01 pm 
To: Pimander (38 of 69) 
 
5.38 in reply to 5.37 

The situation with the monarchy of ancient Israel was fascinating. When the Jews decided that they wanted a king (instead of being a theocracy ruled by the Levite priesthood), Saul was annointed. His oldest son, Jonathan, should have been his successor - that is, if the Jews followed what we call the Salic law - descent of kingship is through the first born son. But the Jews did not follow that practice. Thus, David, a ursurper, was annointed as the new King of the Jews even though Saul (and his sons) were still living. Civil war ensued. Matters were complicated by the fact that Jonathan and David were bosom friends and loved each other as brothers, and David was married to one of Saul's daughters.

To make a long story short, eventually Saul was killed in the war, David conquered Jerusalem and "officially" ascended the throne. He had many wives, but he had no children through Saul's daughter. Solomon, who was annointed as David's successor, was the son of David and Bathsheba, and was not the oldest son, nor the son of any of the more senior wives.
Solomon is often portrayed in history as a peaceable man who amazed everyone with his wisdom. But he had at least two of his half-brothers killed to ensure his hold on the throne, and eventually numbered some 300 wives and 700 concubines. It's no wonder the kingdom fell apart when he died - with so many "heirs" and their mothers behind them competing for the throne, it's a wonder the whole country didn't end up killing each other off!

From: Pimander  
11/22/2000 7:52 pm 
To:  Alpheta (39 of 69) 
 
5.39 in reply to 5.38 

Hi Alpheta
Your detailed knowledge of the O.T. is quite incredible!

300 wives and 700 concubines!!??I guess that's what you'd call "living large". The whole deal sounds like some kind of archetypal form of gangsterism. You have to wonder if some of the victims weren't terminally stupid to hang in a neighbourhood where they knew one morning they might wake up dead. Chicago style Mafioso seem almost mild mannered by comparison.
Speaking of which, I was up late last night browsing through an entire mega site of conspiricy style journalism. Rather fascinating in its own right. Maybe we need a thread called "Transfers of Corruption". Needless to say, the Bilderbergers, Trilateralists and the WTO were front row center, although there were plenty of references to the Order of Malta. Good to see Mark Twain in there taking his shots at Cecil Rhodes. Old Sam Clemens - he's got to be among the tops in my book. Some of the anecdotes on the early days of the Carnegies, Morgans, and especially the Rockefellers were particularly lurid - but it was that man Quigley who really got my attention.

It's ugly stuff and whoever put this site together really laid it on with a trowel. Wonder if he isn't dodging CIA bullets by now? If nothing else, check out the "Shadows" essay. Might be disturbing. Certainly enough there to make you want to go out an buy a night light.
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/

a bientot
Pi & Co.

From: Alpheta  
11/22/2000 9:49 pm 
To: Pimander (40 of 69) 
 
5.40 in reply to 5.39 

Dear Pi and Co.,
Just as there are transfers of holiness, and of knowledge, and of love, there may also be transfers of corruption and wickedness, and vileness. I don't, however, believe there is the kind of systemic and systematic corruption and evil that the grand conspiracy theories hold forth. People who engage in corrupt, wicked and evil deeds are inherently self-centered and selfish; ultimately such people could never work together for an extended period to achieve the alleged goal of total world domination and control; besides, they would never trust each other, and would probably end up trying to kill each other off rather than banding together to achieve a common goal!

As for my bible knowledge, it has expanded exponentially in the seven years I have been studying The Word, but it's a patch on what some folks know! Here is an interesting tid bit. We are all familiar with the account of the Exodus, and how Moses went up into the mountain, was gone for 40 days, and came down the mountain with the Law of God writ by God's own finger, on stone tablets. What most people don't know is that there was a proscription in the Law against the "multiplying of horses", meaning that the Hebrews weren't to engage in breeding of horses. They were, instead, to rely totally upon Jehovah/Yahweh to provide them with protection and military victories and therefore a plentitude of horses, instruments of warfare, were not needed. (Deut. 17:15, 16; 20:1-4).

By the time of Solomon (king 1037-998 BCE), however, he is reported as accumulating thousands of horses, and royal merchants trafficked in horses and chariots. According to my bible encyclopedia, a horse went for 150 silver pieces ($330 - if the silver pieces were shekels), and a chariot went for 600 silver pieces ($1,320, if shekels). The price differential demonstrates just how valuable the light-weight, spoked-wheel war chariots were! This certain provides more circumstantial evidence of the importance of ekwhos and the war chariot, prime players in the Royal Game.

After Solomon's death the kingdom divided into Israel and Judah, and the Hebrews' use of horses in war become commonplace, completely against the proscription in Deuteronomy.
Talk about transfers of wicknedness! With very few exceptions, all of the kings of the two-kindgoms after the death of Solomon were, at the least, worshippers of gods and goddesses other in addition to or other than J/Y, and at the worst, sacrificed their own children as well as the children of others to Moloch/Chemosh/Milcom (same god, different names), as well as to the goddess Tanit (who, according to my bible encyclopedia, is identified with Ashtoreth), often depicted with an animal face. From the Bible's point of view, the worship of other gods and goddesses was bad enough, but the sacrifice of innocent life in the service of these baalim was anathema.

As a final note, the two pillars on either side of the Holy in the original and second Temples at Jerusalem were representations of the pillar of smoke that led Israel by day and the pillar of Fire that led Israel by night during the Exodus. Here is an ancient example of transferring into stone (in this case, a red colored pillar and a grey colored pillar) that which, in the real life experience, was incarnate.